The clearer Proceso version of the events surrounding the death of Maria Susana Flores Gamez is overly truncated, glossing over some important points provided in the original Riodoce version. Riodoce's version is too lengthy and sometimes fails to acknowledge seemingly deliberate misinterpretations of events in the various reports by the military. Neither publication is at fault. In my opinion, it was the military that purposefullly created smokescreens of confusion by leaving out facts. It may be still early in the process, and a clearer, interpretation may be pending. Havana
MEXICO CITY (Proceso) - "Do not shoot!" She pleaded. "Do not shoot!" She shouted again. But her words were lost in the rattle of the G-3. The bursts from the army, did not cease, having pursued them since Caitime. The skirmish continued for several minutes. The beauty queen was killed by a bullet that shattered a carotid artery in the left side of her neck, according to the medical report made in the preliminary investigation.
Farewell to the glamor, the catwalk, to photo shoots, to the crown. The winner of the Sinaloa Woman 2012 beauty, Maria Susana Flores Gamez, stepped down from the white pick up, "carrying a long gun," said the military information delivered to the PGR along with various weapons, magazines, rounds of ammunition and implements of war, which interviewed neighbors (by Riodoce) in El Palmar de Los Leal contradict, she yelled for surrender to the Army.
The vehicle from which the girl descended was destroyed upon entering El Palmar de los Leal, Mocorito. Several rifles were found lying on the ground around her, including an AK-47, known as "goat horn," which authorities say, she was carrying when she got out of the vehicle.
She was abandoned to her fate by Orso Ivan Gastelum , El Cholo, and three more gunmen. Upon entering the town, the leader of the Sinaloa cartel hitmen in the area, instructed to "the miss ": "Say you were kidnapped ... they're not going to do anything, they'll let you go."
That said, the gunmen released a burst into the air to distract the army, who were trying to encircle them, El Cholo escaped with the rest between the houses and weeds, into those valleys that produce sesame and vegetables.
The Nightmare
It all started in Caitime, a village of perhaps five thousand inhabitants which is divided by Mexico 15, approximately 20 kilómeters south of the city of Guamúchil.
The dawn of November 24, a convoy with dozens of soldiers crept into town with the order to hunt Orso Ivan Gastelum, El Cholo, an operator of Joaquin "El Chapo Guzman", who in August 2009 escaped from the prison in Culiacan after a farewell party. It's assumed his employer had given that word.
The uniformed officers didn't arrive in official vehicles, but in particular trucks, including double wheeled armored ones. The same vehicles military forces seized three years before in Guasave from hitmen Isidro Meza Flores, El Chapo Isidro, a sworn enemy of the El Cholo. They were hidden under straw bundles.
When Orso Ivan Gastelum's circle of security realized that armed men surrounded the house, they alerted their boss, who was in another hideout, less than 100 meters away. Thinking that it was a rival Guasave group, they began shooting at the strangers. But when they found that it was not the Chapo Isidro they faced but soldiers instead, they took all the weapons that could and mounted in at least two trucks and fled knocking down bushes, fences, speeding down a dirt road leading to El Progreso.
Thus began a chase that spanned three villages and over 15 kilometers and would end when the military shot Susana María Flores Gámez, at the entrance of El Palmar de Los Leal.
Back in the first skirmish a soldier had been shot and killed. Later More soldiers and gunmen would die, including a worker who crossed the shooting and was killed.
One of the military reports integrated into the investigation given to Seido informs that the military received an anonymous denouncement at 21:30 hours on Friday the 23rd in which they said, " People belonging o organized crime established a military check point very early in the morning in some of the access areas entering the town"
An operation was planned and executed at 05:00 the following day. When they arrived, some gunmen fled in their trucks up to a house. The soldiers followed them and were greeted with bullets by offenders who received reinforcements from the interior of the property.
In the scuffle Eleazar López Bernal was shot. Some gunmen managed to escape, but they were chased and gave in, capitulated: "We surrender. Do not shoot," says the military report they detained Alvaro Cázarez Iribe with AR-15 rifle, Gabino Ramirez Lopez, who was carrying an AK-47, and Giovanny Rodriguez Beltran, with another "goat horn".
They are all under arrest at SEIDO in Mexico City, where they were taken last Thursday.
Also in Caitime they seized six trucks and an arsenal: six AK-47, AR-15 rifle, a grenade launcher attachment, 40 mm caliber grenade, two defensive grenades, a .45 millimeters caliber Colt pistol 37 different chargers, and 1,308 thousand different cartridges. Also clothing and tactical gear.
(Extract from the report published in 1833 Proceso already in circulation)
A surprise confrontation between the military and the boss of the Sinaloa cartel hitmen, Orso Ivan Gastelum, authorities give different versions of events. The military reveals that the beauty queen killed in the fray, Susana Flores María Gámez, fired a gun and sodium rhodizonate tests show positive barium and lead. But there are doubts, suspicions and contradictions. Gabriela Soto / Miguel Angel Vega
"Do not shoot!" She pleaded. "Do not shoot!" She shouted again. But her words were lost in the rattle of the G-3. The bursts of the Army that were chasing from Caitime did not cease. It was a scuffle that continued for several minutes. The beauty queen was killed by a bullet that shattered the carotid artery in the left side of her neck, according to the medical report to the preliminary integrated report 141/2012.
Goodbye glamor to the runway, the sessions photo, to the crown. The winner of the contest Sinaloa Woman 2012, Maria Susana Flores Gamez, descended from the white pickup truck, "carrying a long gun," said the military part delivered to the PGR with various weapons, magazines, rounds of ammunition and implements of war . Yelling her surrender to elements of the army, interviewed neighbors by Riodoce in Palmar de Leal
The vehicle that she came out of was destroyed leaving as they entered the town of El Palmar de Los Leal. Several rifles were lying around her, including an AK-47, commonly known as "goat horn", which, authorities say, she was carrying .
She was abandoned to its fate by Orso Iván Gastélum, el Cholo, and three more gunmen . Upon entering the ejido, the leader of the Sinaloa cartel hitmen in the area, instructed to miss: "Say you kidnap ... not going to do anything, you let go." That said, the Cholo escaped with the rest.
Before leaving, they released a burst into the air to distract the army which was trying to corral them.. Then ran between the houses and weeds, in those valleys that produce vegetables and sesame.
Yet the military report got that she served as a retaining wall for the escape of criminals: "that vehicle left in a spot, as a block to help the second truck flee the scene, but shooting continued, resulting in a female person, coming out of the vehicle carrying a long gun, a situation that the other assailants took to their advantage being impossible to capture three wounded comrades,"says the document. Earlier, the same party explains that in one of the assaults in the chase, the gunmen wounded a "military element first then later two more military elements ".
*** All started in a village of Caitime perhaps 500 thousand inhabitants that divides Mexico Highway 15, approximately 20 kilometers south of the city of Guamuchil. early Saturday November 24, a convoy of dozens of soldiers crept into town with the order to hunt down Orso Ivan Gastelum. El Cholo, an operator of Joaquin El Chapo Guzman. in August 2009 he escaped from the prison in Culiacan after giving a farewell party where he boasted that his employer had given word.
Uniformed officers did not arrive in cars, but in particular trucks, including double wheeled armored ones that three years earlier, military forces had seized in Guasave from Isidro Meza Flores, El Chapo Isidro hitmen, El Cholo's sworn enemy. They were hidden under straw bales
When Orso Ivan Gastelum security circle realized that armed men surrounded the house, they alerted his boss, who was in another safety hideout, not a hundred yards away.
Thinking that it was Guasave rival groups began shooting at strangers. But he realized that was not who faced Chapo Isidro, but soldiers, they took all the weapons can be mounted on at least two trucks and knocking down bushes and fences went speeding down a dirt road leading to El Progreso .
Thus began a chase and death that spanned three towns and over 15 kilometers would end when the military shot Maria Susana Flores Gamez, at the entrance of El Palmar of Leal. Another soldier had been a hit and a soldier dead, product of the first skirmish. Then came more soldiers and gunmen, including a laborer who crossed the shooting and was killed.
One of the military reports built on research submitted to the Deputy Attorney Specialized Investigation of Organized Crime (SEIDO), reports that the military elements received an anonymous report at 21:30 am on Friday, November 23, because "members of organized crime in the early morning hours, established military-like checkpoints areas of access to the village." So we planned an operation and executed at 05:00 pm the following day. When they arrived, there were gunmen, who fled in their truck up to a house. The soldiers followed them and were greeted with bullets from firearms by criminals, who received reinforcements from the interior of the property. "Wounding at that time a corporal of infantry, so it is repelled by killing one of our aggressors ... while other assailants continued firing from within said building for 15 minutes, "he detailed.
Eleazar López Bernal was killed in the skirmish. Some gunmen managed to escape, but they capitulated: "We surrender. Do not shoot," The military report -detained Alvaro Cázarez Iribe with AR-15 rifle, Gabino Ramirez Lopez, who was carrying an AK-47 and Giovanny Rodriguez Beltran, with another "goat horn". They are all under arrest in the City SEIDO Mexico, where they were taken last Thursday. In Caitime they seized six different trucks and an arsenal: six AK-47, AR-15 rifle, a grenade launcher attachment, 40 mm caliber grenade, two defensive grenades , a .45 caliber Colt pistol millimeters, plus 37 different chargers, and 308 thousand different cartridges. Likewise tactical clothing and equipment.
*** After the first skirmish in Caitime, a chase following El Cholo commenced, who was accompanied by Maria Susana. According to eyewitness reports, the gunmen fled to Mexico Highway 15 and took a dirt road of about 11 kilometers, weeds and walled, known by locals as Zaragoza, which connects with El Progress.
According to the military side, three vehicles were introduced by the aforementioned gap: a Ford pickup , armored plates TX-31-216, a Cheyenne Silverado armored gray-silver, TZ-44 076 plates, and a Captiva Sport truck the same color as the above, but with plates VMZ-7794-0. Drivers traveling through a gap near Caitime,
the two integrated helicopter in the operation
observing the shootings. Of the three vehicles, it was only possible to stop one. It was driven by Felipe de Jesus Ortiz Reyes, "who proceeded to surrender, lying on the ground, being held by military personnel."
In the same operation they secured two other vehicles, but no information about where, how, or what happened to the offenders. That information omitted from military report but submitted by military researchers. Nor did it mention that the aggressors belong criminal group, although it is common knowledge to those who are part of Populli Sinaloa cartel.
Die at Dawn
The morning of that day, Rosario Méndez rose shortly before five o'clock. His wife, Sara Conception Yañes, already had prepared his lunch so, El Chayo, as he was known , took the bag with tacos that his gave him, grabbed his cap and went out to the street where a truck that would take him to his work was waiting. His wife said goodbye and did not know it wouldbe the last time see him alive.
According to testimony from people in El Progreso, the chase coming from Caitimen passing through town. The hit men, seeing that the Dodge Ram pickup that El Chayo was traveling in was stopped outside a house waiting for them to open the gate, el Cholo's people violently stopped beside it, the gunmen ran and pulled out El Chayo and the driver of the unit, while the other assassins truck blocked the van to keep the boss safe. All this happened in seconds, and the military was a just few feet away and started shooting left and right against the gunmen. Several of those shots pierced Chayo's body repeatedly, who had no time to lie on the floor, as did his companion.
Jacinto Yanes, 68, night ranch watchman's, recalls with horror, to see and hear the gunmen violently through the truck, and heard the shots from the military, quickly threw himself to the ground and began to crawl next to side of a tree. "Wished at the time wanted that the earth to swallow me, because those thunder and buzzing is the ugliest thing that can happen to a person," he told Ríodoce, days after the shooting.
El Cholo and Maria Susana Flores Gamez, who were traveling in the first of the trucks could not continue due to punctured tires by the shots, got out, covering from the military fire, they switched to the unit that pulled up seconds before.
They continued on the escape route to El Palmar de los Leal, a population that is two kilometers south of El Progreso. The truck that had crossed their escort, also started following him, while the military continued after the gunmen.
Gone was the terror, and the shattered body of El Chayo, who had fallen as if struck.
Chasing was to to be limitless. After all they had killed a soldier and wounded two others. That's why, say Ríodoce sources, ElCholo was telling Maria Susana, amid the flight, they would have to separate.
"Soldiers are not going to shoot a woman," he said. "When you get caught, say you had been kidnapped ... they will let go."
Nobody could pinpoint exactly what the beauty queen answered him.
By then the violent chase entered El Palmar, where, passing the first bridge Cholo's people turned left and there, under a tree stopped the truck, got out with guns in hand and moved to another unit.
Soldiers reached there and seeing the truck crossed the road blocking, soldiers armed and barricaded themselves, without inquiring further, began firing.
There began a new hell, because the shooting did not stop until several minutes later.
A neighbor interviewed by Ríodoce said, before the soldiers fired, Susana's voice was heard calling "don't shoot!". But the sounds died in the blasts.
Conflicting Versions
When the shooting stopped, the town looked like a swarm of soldiers, marines and federales. There were two helicopters flying over the area, and the military forces did not let absolutely anybodythe place, but also prevented residents from leaving their homes.
"I did not want to peek, because I was afraid ... hey, many shots, and we with children and expecting it to end, as we were lying on the ground, "said a man who declined to give his name.
As explained, not even prosecutors could enter the place, as the Army conducted its work expertise.
According Ríodoce sources, El Cholo had been hurt, but just grazed. One of his gunmen would be in worse condition, since one of the shots would have broken an arm, days later, the arm had to be amputated.
But the military version of the first part of the death of "the Miss" is also different. The document specifies that Maria Susana was traveling in armored truck along with others, and she was carrying a "long gun", but it doesn't say she shot at the military, as it should have been institutionally specified.
According to the narrative, a white pickup traveling at high speed towards El Progreso, upon passing a military checkpoint fired at them. They proceeded to repel and started to chase.
Later in the agricultural zone, the soldiers endured a second attack. Also the gunmen robbed a truck and continued escaping. Arriving at the next town, soldiers were met with another attack from that same pickup truck, the one, the model was traveling in .
"Started a third attack by assailants traveling in an armored white truck, wounded the first military person, a little up the road, two other military elements were wounded, repelling the cited aggression . Finally stopping their progression in a different spot, their truck served as block to the second truck aiding the criminals to flee the scene."
"But nevertheless, the assault continued , resulting in a female casualty, the one who stepped from the vehicle carrying a rifle, at that moment the attackers took advantage of order escape place"
The military version concluded without informing what happened to the rest of the attackers who were traveling with her, it is deduced that the truck served as a "wall" the attackers used to escape from the other truck.
From that time the military gained control. They gave notice to civil authorities . But the prosecutor, stationed in the county seat of Mocorito, had to wait two hours to initiate proceedings on the body of the miss, because they wouldn't let anybody through.
Attorney Marco Antonio Higuera Gomez initially said that she ( the beauty was with the gunmen and he refused to point out if she shot.) Days later the prosecutor passed the problem to the PGR when they attested that they performed the rhodizonate sodium test on the corpse. This, according to the written statement resulted positive for barium and lead.
General Moises Melo Garcia adopted the same position when asked about Maria Susana's participation in the facts, according to a media: "I think they are exaggerating the situation, I could not confirm that which PGR is saying (if she fired) , in which case it is they who have to report what happened that day," he said.
About the facts the Department of Defense issued no official statement and only limited to develop parts of confrontation which they were given by the PGR.
Beauty and tragedy
The brief history of Mary Susan was marked by glamor, beauty and tragedy. At age eight her father was killed during a confrontation. Then the girl was under the care of her mother, but she found solace in the beauty contests in which she began to participate.
Leopoldo Sánchez, fashion promoter in Guamúchil said that Susana was first queen of Talent and Fantasy contest, and later Queen of her high school.
Then she began with the catwalks until she became Miss Sinaloa of Tourism
"She was a healthy girl, very pretty and very funny ... never heard that she hung out in those environments," explained the promoter to Ríodoce.
Sometime in those these events, or outside of them, she ran into Orso Ivan Gastelum, but it's a story whose details few know and no one wants to tell.
The night of Friday 23, Maria Susana was in Culiacán and reportedly told her mother that she would go to the Livestock Show to see a Jenny Rivera concert.
But something tragic happened that morning because she was in Caitime, in a El Cholo safe house, that Army intelligence sources had already located, and that same morning, they had the order to assault.
That's why when the mother of Maria Susana got the call that her daughter had been "injured" in a shootout in Caitime, which she first received with horror and then with disbelief.
"No, my daughter is in Culiacán. She went to the fair to see Jenny Rivera with her friends, "She reportedly told the bearers of bad news.
Rooted/vetted/ arraigned by la SEIDO
— Álvaro Cázarez Iribe.
— Gabino Ramírez López.
— Giovanny Rodríguez Beltrán.
— Felipe de Jesús Ortíz Reyes.
Secured:
— Chevrolet Tornado, pick up, white.
— Chevrolet Silverado, pick up, roja.
— Dodge Dakota, pick up, white
— Toyota Sienna, suv, grey.
— Toyota Tundra, pick up 4X4, grey.
— General Motors Silverado, suv, black
— Dodge Ram, de redilas, blanca.
— 6 armas AK-47.
— 1 fusil AR-15.
— 1 Grenade launcher attachment.
— 1 grenade calibre .40 milímeters.
— 2 granadas de fragmentación defensivas.
— 1 Colt pistol calibre .45 milímetros.
— 37 various magazines.
— 1,308 different rounds.
She is dead. Get over it.
ReplyDeleteHow you know what cholo told her? How do you know one of his men had to have a arm amputated?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteLes digo plebes. El Chapo ya se fue del país. Asta el cholo ivan anda prófugo. Las cellulas que quedan estan en durango y chihuahua. Bueno las mas fuertes. El gobierno esta i seguirá matando a gente de todos los carteles i tambien inocentes. La culpa se la achacan a el chapo y el 40. Esos bueyes ya los van a matar cuando el ejercito acabe su mentada limpia. Para que el rico siga rico y el pobre mas jodido. El chapo ae dio cuenta y se largo y el puto de el 40 se entregará con los gabachos. Porque aqui loa matan los mismos políticos culeros que les dieron poder. Atte ramon ayala
ReplyDeleteIt's very sad that she was killed, horrible. My heart goes out to her family, to the State of Sinaloa, to Mexico and to the Institution whose crown she held. But why was she hanging out with narcos? If it was by her choice she knew the risks. Especially in Sinaloa.
ReplyDeleteDear Havana...that picture wit the Chopper above the white truck,was that the vehicle she jumped out of?
ReplyDeleteif they released the photo's of the aftermath then we would get a better picture,she might of been wearing casual gear and the soldiers didnt realize it was a chick....soldiers would of been fumin too after losing 2 comrades in the chase...i probably would of kept firing too,fkn narco's!!!
ReplyDeleteAbandon by el cholo.. wow what a man.. fucking coward.. keep idolizing this pieces of shit.. they don't care for no one but themselves ... No Que el cholo this and that , that's what the corridos say right?!.. viva la marina .. sigan matando a estos Culos
ReplyDeletelet me get this straight, she was not kidnapped but was told to say she was by her handler, got shot for her crimes, and we are supposed to feel sorry for her, fuck that shit, payback is a bitch, 4 years of senseless murder in Juaritos, now take your medicine like a grown up Sinaloa, its your turn 4 senseless murder
ReplyDeleteThings don't work out the way they should when you're involved with narcos and the army is corrupt - nobody wins
ReplyDeleteThe white truck was the one she and her boyfriend jacked and killed the owner an innocent bystander.
ReplyDeleteFor sure any agency in Mexico, or anywhere in the world, but with greater gusto in Mexico, can torque the facts to benefit them. BUT I have issue with anonymous sources coming forth so late. Neighbors could have anonymously called or written to any news source as it happened. Please remember this was not a one stop balacera, it continued for a long length of time as the criminals moved to a different city.
And this was not a case where she was forced to be with criminal company. it was a decision , just as it was a decision to shoot by whoever killed her. I saw photos with clearly marked police units in the chase.
At any event its a waste, because the young woman had choices, opportunity unlike the over 60% of children born in Mexico. I do have sympathy for her family, they probably thought they were home free with this young life, filled with promise.
Just My daily "dos"....paz, chivis
Pinche plebita pendeja, la vida se gana con esfuerzo no con dormirse con un buchon y con las falsas promesas de un cualquiera.
ReplyDeleteWHITEPEOPLE GO TO YOUTUBE AND LOOK UP SICARIOS DE JOAQUIN. THAT SON ITS ABOUT EL CHOLO..
ReplyDeleteAND THATS MUSIC YOU COULD DANCE NOT LIKE THE COUNTRY MUSIC
No mames plebe. Ni sean porristas el cholo ivan la dejo morir sola como perra. Ese buchón es un cobarde culero. His song is crap nada but lies. Tu y el cholo me pelan la chaira.
Delete8:00 my opinion is neither publication is as fault because they are going by information the military gave Seido and SEDENA and that information was all over the place and hard to represent coherently.If I hadn't said anything in the beginning, I would have heard from you too. No winning with you. I expect that consistency out of you.
ReplyDelete@9:24- No she was never kidnapped-el cholo (her supposed narco sicario boyfriend) told her to say she was kidnapped, and surrender) and nothing would happen to her, and they'd let her go. Except that wasn't the case as we know.. So, that is why they were saying she was used as a human shield.
@9:00 the chopper and the white truck are just representations of the scene. As both played parts.
I read both pieces and understand exactly what Havana said. The periodicals can only work with the reportd submitted to agencies and if they are a confusing mess the story might be confusing too. The whole situation was confusing. Don't take it out on the messenger.
ReplyDeleteMuerte al CHAPUTO y su plevada cojida!..
ReplyDeleteRamon Arellano-Felix para Presidente de Mexico 2013!..
She and her narco boyfriend carjacked and killed an innocent bystander...The army should have chopped her to pieces and thrown it into a drain..."Sinaloa Cartel protects and doesn't harm the innocent"... BullShit talk by CDS cheerleaders...El Chapo is the biggest snitching lowlife bastard of all narco scumbags.
ReplyDeleteIt's irrevelant to the events leading up to her being shot! In he heat of the moment, when the military is taking fire and being provoked by obvious armed sicarios, there is no time to "pick and choose," your targets! I feel zero sympathy for this "beauty queen," who in my opinion had everything going for her (bright future) and she still decided the "narco lifestyle!" And does it really matter anyway? I mean there have been thousands of innocent lives lost and this woman makes the headlines...like she was something special! She stop being special the moment she made the adult decision to date and get involved with a fucking turd!
ReplyDeleteFunny how people love to pick on the newst kids when they are girls. Havana and Aci can easily hold their own quality-wise with the rest of the BB reporters. So cut them the same slack and if you think their stories suck, go to the next story. This was a fine story, Havana. Another corruption angle to explore with this case? Seems like it to me anyway
ReplyDeleteShe knew what the game was,its sad but she weren't lucky this time.Even if she wasn't shooting she was with them,and the soldiers aint looking to get killed.There is not one person here in that situation who is gonna take chances with these dudes.
ReplyDeleteGuess who's gettin his face shot off if its him or me?Yeya,no brain-er that one isn't it.We feeling sad for her because she was a babe with options,understandably so,but she put herself in that position and we can't go blaming everyone else.
At the point these kids were at with the police it was for sure shoot now, ask questions later, these cops ain't going to hold their fire in a case like this. She was hanging with dangerous people and the police really didn't have the time to pick and choose who was going to get shot at that point. To the poster who said they would not shoot a woman, um yes they would, anyone presenting a clear danger is going down period. Just like the women in the mideast or Vietnam who were suicide bombers, woman are just as capable as men when it comes to violence and killing. As a woman myself any human being has the capacity to harm others. By the way Jenni Rivera in my opinion is putting herself in harms way going to perform at some of the areas she goes too. Hope she stays safe.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand what the big fuss is about her being killed by the mex military. She was involved with scumbag narcos. That's all that needs to be said. What difference does it make if she was pretty or not? In my opinion if you hang with scumbags expect to be treated as one when shit goes down. Another dead narco wannabe, good looking yes, but that shouldn't make a difference in who she was as a person. "Show me who your friends are and I will tell you who you are."
ReplyDeleteI have read both articles in Spanish.I am a native speaker,and Havana is correct, both were exceedingly confusing. Her translation was accurate based on the chaotic, confusing parts of both original articles.
ReplyDeleteI'm amazed anyone would attempt to try to make sense of them. They don´t even make sense to me in my own language,unless I really concentrate on what they are trying to convey, and read them several times.
It was necessary to have an introduction to the two articles prefacing the confusion or otherwise everyone would think it was Havana Pura.I assure you it wasn't. I checked.
December 5, 2012 9:27 AM
ReplyDelete"Hey iif ur gunna talk shit bout americans then get out of the country and go bck to that failed country we call mexico"
Exactly bro,give us a chance and we ok,gringos i mean,we not all fools and clowns and i don't hate on no-one for nothing,if more people were like you we might be in a better shape.They hate us and they never even met us?Saludos to you bro.
"Funny how people love to pick on the newst kids when they are girls"?
ReplyDeleteWhen they are girls?Fuck is that supposed to mean?
Didn't even know they were girls or women,what does that do for your little theory there?
I Hate to be the bearer of "Note worthy " News but let me ask all who have read this BB Report about a
ReplyDeletePoor Cinderella killed because she ran with the wrong crowd a question..? Do you think her death was more important because she was "Miss Sinaloa"?
How about the thousands of other Young Mexican girls murdered by the cartels,Police,soldiers even their own boy freinds..? Are they not important because they were nobodies?? They might have been your sisters,daughters or just aquaintences but they all have one thing in common and that is they were young human beings that no longer exist on this earth because mabey bad choices or just being at the wrong place at the wrong time! Or mabey for just being Mexican
in these times of violence. God Bless their souls..!
Please understand we here at bb are all from sinaloa. Fuck the rest of mexico ot can go to hell. But nobody and i mean NOBODY say a damn thing about cds, el chapo,or sinaloa
DeleteReports are today being published that PGR tests were positive for gun powder residue on her hands, and that she was the first out of the stolen truck and others followed.
ReplyDeleteEveryone seems to be forgetting the real victim here: The man who was going to work and earn an honest paycheck. I feel bad for the girls family but, fuck it, she made the choice to hang out with narcos. Now, suppose that she would of told the army that she was kidnapped, they let her go: you know she would of run right back to her boyfriend, and be right back at square one. No, the real victims are the man who died in a hail of bullets and his family. They are the rue victims in this case.
ReplyDeleteEcho 2
I agree with u!
DeleteChivis is in the house taking criticism off the comments section again? Everyone saw it? Fuckin idiot
ReplyDeleteI am a lil confused here they hijacked a car and then what and She got shot when she begged them not to??
ReplyDeletedec 5 2:09
ReplyDeletewhat are you talking about fool? everyone saw what? you are not "everyone"
no matter, you are the fucking idiot talking down a reporter that works their ass off for your ungrateful ass.
the story is reminiscent of the tabloid mentality of many Americans, can anyone say Lindsay Lohan or Kim K? same thing.
Long ass but i get the point but knowing the PGR I can just as easily believe she tested clean for GPR. No one is trying to mAke it anything but mayhem or clearing her name to a 22 year old who merelymade the fat mistake of falling for the lethal narco dude. Thanks BB
ReplyDelete9:54 why are you instructing white people to do anything any more than blue or green people ? All of us here no matter what color care about the situation and don't need to be specified by color.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the fuss is she looks too pretty to kill like it is more of a waste even if she was narcoized?
ReplyDeleteWe fail to notice that she could've gotten out before all the mayhem. She knew who she was rolling and messing around with. What about that innocent man that was gunned down by this cell of dipshits. That could've been anybodies father, uncle, or neighbor that did'nt deserve to die. She chose her path and knew what she was doing. Good Work BB.
ReplyDeleteLately I feel as though we are referees for the battle of the racists, or fielding personal attacks.
ReplyDeleteFor some reason a person takes issue with the removal of a personal attack against Havana. Now saying I protect her. Well I sure do. and all the reporters.
no matter which reporter it is against , I will not allow vile or mean spirited personal attacks, that is grossly unfair.
fair is challenging the post, or opinion but not a personal attack....thanks
WTF I though this was BORDERLAND BEAT... Not a blog where we people put each others race down.. its 2012 this racist shit has to stop.. white ,Mexicans, middle easterns and asians were all effected by what's going on in the drug war in Mexico or any other country.. come on people let's concentrate on what this blog really is about, the war on drugs. NOT RACISM...
ReplyDelete-LALO-
Story makes a point but in the end........ Stuff happens. It is due to the fog of war. The fog rolls in, stuff happens. The fog rolls out and nobody knows exactly what happened. Best policy = don't ride dirty.
ReplyDeleteOnly reason this dead horse is being beaten well past death is cuz the bitch was a female with some kind of standing in the world, curiously owed to superficial beauty and sex appeal I might add... somebody at bb thinks its worth looking at twice when, as previously stated, chicks get killed all over mexico the same way if not worse, but they aren't some halfass beauty queen or part of the corrupt ass mexican government so nobody gives a shit when they bite the dirt sandwich. Truth is no one knows but those directly involved how shit played out and whether or not they were involved with cartels or the motive as to why, for any involvement. CHILL THE FUCK OUT. Its been talked about, move on please BB.
ReplyDeleteOh and what the fuck is up with more "mexico is a failed country mexico sucks" comments being posted than "racist ass white people get the fuck out of here with that bullshit" comments making it through a supposed moderated comments section? That is bullshit. Just sayin. Feminist white people runnin BB or some shit??? HAHAHA
Ak47s, sounds like drop weapons,
ReplyDeleteSset Up!
Good Read Havana
She was killed because of her love of money. The real victims here are the innocent people and not the ones who hang around narcos. Texcoco
ReplyDelete4:51..? Are You For Real or just Goofing..? I mean your commment sounds like you have an IQ of 4! and I'm giving you 3 points..! I sure as hell hope you don't think you really do represent any part of Mexico.
ReplyDeleteChivis i personally appreciate all of what you and other contributors do,but you are an intelligent woman,of course some of us are going to disagree with what some say.This is what comments are about,challenging and informing.It is sometimes you who take it to personally,this little circle of defensiveness from forum gets a little to much to take and antagonizes people who were only pointing something out?Any kind of criticism elicits an almost instant response from you,and you are the arbiter of good taste?You are infallible?Of course we appreciate what you do,but is it ok to disagree sometimes? Anyway fuck this,end of sermon.
ReplyDeleteI know,,,end of story and topic.
Chivas, I just read your policy about racist remarks on this board and the best thing to do is not allow them to be published, if someone feels the need to bash a race then this is not the board for them. This is about the slaughter of people in Mexico period, not a sounding board for racist attacks. I get that you want people to have a voice but truly publishing these comments is inciting more hatred. I love this board and being a American woman of non Hispanic origin it is getting cumbersome to wade thru the comments of race haters who want to blame everything on the color of someone's skin. Don't publish racist remarks that add nothing to the topic. This story is about a beauty queen who was killed hanging with the narcos, comments should be on that story, not white, black, brown whatever. Feeding the trolls by publishing their hate only encourages them. We are all guests on this board and a code of personal conduct should be required without race being a factor. Keep reporting Chivas, this board depends on you, I know I do. Thank You
ReplyDeleteYou don't show up at a gunfight to dance.....and yelling "No Disparan" in the middle of a firefight you helped instigate is going to get ignored. As my Brit friends explained after killing a machinegunner that they managed to reach, "Too late old chum".
ReplyDelete@ 8:06 and 9:09
ReplyDeleteThank you for your comments, they were respectful but direct. I will say it is a very difficult job to moderate, I think censorship is a slippery slope, and for every questionable comment you see a dozen were annihilated by the delete button. What I try to do is represent the thinking of readers to illustrate how people of Mexico and the US think. I feel it is a valuable tool. But the balancing act does sway topic. and for that I apologize.
Until I posted my comment about the racist remarks no one was complaining much. That is disheartening. Once I did, intelligent thoughtful persons weighed in. To me you proved the need. We can no hide the issue under the rug. Racism exists. and in Mexico it is rampant.
Calling someone "indio" in Mexico means the indigenous Indians, but is also used in context as a derogatory term much like the "N" word is in the US. Each day I get vile comments from Mex that also include the word "Indios" in vile context to slam someone. It disgusts me. Mexicans are also very racist against central Americans, and is a color conscience nation.
But the majority of Mexicans like Americans and they should not be judged by remarks of those posting garbage here, I hope that the good people of Mexico will step forth and be brave and say as much. That good people of Mexico are like good people everywhere, judging people by their character.
BTW we get about 35-40% readership from Mexico.
Last night I literally did not sleep. I thought about the racists comments all night. It is as though we are two steps forth 1 step back. I think I have failed.
and another subject
I have more than a couple of comments about my taking down the critical comment against Havana. I was right to do so. It was a personal attack. We post a number of critical remarks of the posts about content or opinion, that is fair.
We lose reporters left and right. why? it is because of the bullshit personal attacks and negativity. It is difficult to wade thru that for long. ACI decided to give it another go, and wrote an original piece, only to be slammed by people not even fairly waiting for part 2 to judge it as a whole presentation. That does not make a contributor want to work at BB. Be fair, withhold the personal attacks, be respectful when in disagreement or being critical of the content. That's what we ask.
I am wondering if we need the comment threads at all. Many blogs disable comments, and there is value to that action.
As always, thank you guys for all the positive comments. I only have five here, but let me fire off a couple quick thoughts.
ReplyDeleteEspecially thank you, Chivis, for having my back. I don't usually take the time to defend myself from being called Havana Pendeja among other recent attacks.
But As far as my plagiarizing stories, I will stick up for myself. It doesn't happen.. Look up the definition of the word and then look after sources at the bottom of ALL my posts. All my posts have links. My main page posts are all on Google+( the orange button after Havana in the main page reporters section) and my forum posts are all linked as well. Feel free to look at them all. Hang out in the forum, you'll have fun and maybe even learn something too.. You'll notice everyone in the forum leaves links. If they weren't sourced Chivo and Chivis would call us on it immediately. And whether I can write or not write that isn't the point. The point is I'm not writing, I'm reposting news stories about the drug war that I get online which I ALWAYS credit. Hence not plagiarizing. And if I choose to preface a story with a blurb saying the stories are confusing because their research material was purposefully a confusing web of deceit, well that is my prerogative, my first amendment right.
I see a lot of comments about BB being white and American. Check out Borderland Beat in Wikipedia. Maybe the aim of the blog is to inform Americans who don't speak Spanish about the drug war in Mexico., but United States = melting pot, all people, all colors, all backgrounds, especially the border. Don't assume.
@9:45 you are correct we are BORDERLAND BEAT and we can aspire to a higher standard here and not let that bar be lowered which Chivis thankfully is doing by refereeing, and it is a thankless task.
Most here on BB thankfully, do not want to see racial and misogynist epitaphs being flung across the divide. It isn't a matter of censorship. It's a matter of being wrong, passe, inherently evil and a detriment to progress. We can learn a lot from one another because of our differences always. We can concentrate on assuring the future of the border and both countries is better by working on comprehensive immigration reform in spite of our historical racist past... It'll take us working together and leaving the negatives and racism behind. Let's do that, okay? I hate to think it is asking that much. This is the future.
It is not sad that she got killed. It is only sad that she had a world of opportunity and chose a path associated with crime and violence.
ReplyDeleteMaybe her death will serve as a wake-up call to other young girls that there is nothing glamorous about narcos and their activities.
She suffered the consequences of her own actions.
Havana,
ReplyDeleteI did not pick up on the plagiarizing comment. Looks like you are getting "love" from my blog stalker who always says I do that when I translate and post a mex article. guess she does not know what the word means, since you are so right I would never allow the post to slip by without source credit, and since I have known you it is something you would not do, period.
I do think one of the problems of the type of people who frequent this board are many are looking for gore and blood and slick narco pics with bling everywhere. Havana and Chivas are way above your average intelligence and we get to see this on the reporting they offer, I believe that the very nature of what this boards reports often give people a mentality that any goes. They come looking for drug talk, drug pics you get where I am heading and forget that highly intelligent educated people are also here, no shade to anyone in particular and not disrespecting anyone here. I hate to think Chivas is awake at night worrying about this board. To be honest I have laid awake myself over some things I should not have let my mind rent space to. I can't even watch the videos of violence without fear of being scarred for life, I do not need to see it, just thinking about it can be worse. So Please Chivas and Havana don't change your wonderful ways, it makes you both who you are in this community. We need the voice of reason that you provide.
ReplyDeleteChivis,
ReplyDeleteSeriously, ignore the pendejos, they're just talking out of their asses. And yeah you're right, one thing is to constructively criticize someone based on their work and another is to go on an all out assault because you disagree with someone's work. Esas son mamadas. Shit I even have haters, and guess what, I ignore them because no amount of reasoning is going to change their mind. I don't lose sleep over them and you and Havana shouldn't either. Me la pelan los putos envidiosos haha.
-Jose
Whatever happened to the old cartel heads who ran things the right way. Guys like Hector "Boom Boom" Medina, Edgar "El PoPo" Cardenas and Jimmy "El Monster" Martinez.
ReplyDeleteSome people are turning this into another forum.
ReplyDeleteEvery person here could join the forum,but there is a couple of reasons most don't and have no wish to do so.Wonder what that reason is?Diversas camarillas y la hipocresía y la última palabra a ?Gente de plástico !
I wonder if they Jenni's plane down?
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