Doris Gómora | El Universal
The Mexican government should call a meeting of the General Assembly of the United Nations and ask that the cartels of Los Zetas, La Línea and other major drug trafficking groups be included in the list of known terrorist organizations. "That way all the countries in the world can develop a set of protocols to attack the finances of these 'terrorists' and freeze their accounts", said Edgardo Buscaglia, a fellow at the Autonomous Technological Institute of Mexico (ITAM).
During an interview with EL UNIVERSAL, Buscaglia said the attacks that have been perpetrated by criminal groups in Mexico against the authorities and the civilian population could fall into the category of terrorism that the United Nations put forth during one of its international conventions.
“The definition establishes that these are acts of physical and psychological violence against the civilian population are meant to cause a regime change. Los Zetas and other groups are trying to change the structure within the Mexican state in order to put their own people in power," said Eduardo Buscaglia.
The academic assured EL UNIVERSAL that, “we have been under siege by narco-terrorism, or a mafia style of terrorism for a very long time. The inflection point started during the grenade attacks in Morelia, Michoacán, on September 15 2008. That was an act of terrorism, as the per the definition of the U.N."
The security expert said the president Felipe Calderón and his administration "refuse to take the case against the groups of narco-terrorists to the U.N. Security Council because of the implications of negative political impact it could have back home."
Once the cartels are defined as terrorist groups, their armed branches "would be targeted by international anti-terror agencies, who are enormously sophisticated when it comes to neutralizing threats."
He further gave strength to his argument by pointing out that the number of car bombings and attacks on police and civilians in the border region that has even caused Mexico's neighbor to the north to refer to the cartel problem as a "narco-insurgency."
Political Relationships
Based on the judicial outcomes of certain cases against the members of organized crime in Mexico, Eduardo Buscaglia assured EL UNIVERSAL that the cartels are gathering strength by supporting political parties and candidates for office in the upcoming elections of 2011 and 2012.
"In the case of Los Zetas, they are trying to change the structure of the Mexican state, in order to put their own people in power. all the mafia-terrorists are attempting to manipulate the elections and candidates to assure themselves protection within the political and judicial system."
Source: http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/nacion/183069.html
It's about time someone stated this. Those that cannot see the political implications of this war are blind. All of Mexico needs to sing with this choir until...
ReplyDeleteA UN Security Council meeting is held.
It's about time we started arguing about the definition of words!
DeleteCall them what ever u want just get them off the streets ASAP!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteHell to the yes!
ReplyDeleteMessico does not want to go before UN because an all out declaration will have the US looking at Messico from a terrorist viewpoint and become more involved and agressive. Calderon/Messico does not want that...
So in December, in attempt to do "something" the chamber of deputies did approve punishing terrorist acts which many of the acts of DTOs would be included in this new definition.
read:
"Mexican lawmakers recently approved reforms to the federal penal code to punish terrorist acts. Significantly, the legislators acknowledged that the definition of terrorism was written in such a way that violent and extortionist acts of cartels could be classified as terrorism."
Read more: Mexico: Rebranding the Cartel Wars | STRATFOR
That's absurd to label these guys terrorist organizations since they are NOT terrorists but organized crime groups. Organized crime groups just want money, terrorists want a political or social change. As a Mexican I'm really against this and it angers me the U.S wants to label our citizens as terrorists. I guess the CIA and Pentagon are getting desperate with the Mexican Cartels already. So anyone going against the U.S laws is a terrorist these days???
ReplyDeleteWell the quicker they do this then the quicker hot shit anti-terror operatives can pummel them.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I read, it is the government of Mexico that is asking for the terrorist label to be placed on the cartels. The US will back the legitimate government of Mexico. That action will not brand Mexico as a terror state because the legitimate government does not support the terrorist operations the cartels are doing. Nor does the legitimate government sponsor the cartels terror or illegal operations internationally. The US is very careful in who they define as terror supporting regimes.
ReplyDeleteThe decline in power of past terror networks has been a direct result of the worldwide controls and sanctions. And, they do work. It takes time to completely eliminate a large group, but it has been done. Such a designation would give the honest people in Mexico a big new weapon to fight the cartels. It would also give other nations a legitimate reason to deal with each of the cartels in a myriad of aspects from money to materials that cross international borders for cartel use in Mexico. It is a powerful weapon.
Social change? You don't think "Change" is having to pay "cartels" money apart from paying your taxes as a good citizen. These guys could be compared to the Taliban if you ask me. One set of retards tries to impose their rule with Koran in hand and the other with the Bible. (FM)
ReplyDeleteAnd then we have the "Dc comics" gangs that claim to love their country and are ridding the streets of criminals failing to look in the mirror and see the reflection of cold hearted killers.
Chapo-Batman
In other words "Change" from relying on your govt for protection and going to the cartels instead. And then we have street thugs buying their way into political positions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlrswjvPdSY
Godoy-Tuta conversation
So their you have it Social and Political change.
So let me get this straight Earnest...you only label an organization "Terrorist" when they want political or social change? and you are angered because your "citizens", these Crime Organizations, are labeled as such?
ReplyDeleteWow..well at least you are sticking to your "definitions" and not letting such things as headless bodies and mass graves sway your views.
And oh yeah...I think your 'Crime Organizations' are breaking Mexican Laws first and foremost.
@ Anon 11:29 AM
ReplyDeleteIt is very complicated, actually they DO NOT want the cartels to be branded terrorists, because of the reasons I mentioned above. What they have approved, in their chambers (like our congress) is so acts of the cartels be suject to acts of terror thereby can be punished as such. at the same time they expanded the penalty for such acts.
Sounds good, right? but when one thinks of the impunity that exists in Mx. it is nothing more than words blown into the wind.
To not think these are acts of terror, is being stubborn and wearing blinders. Ask citizens in Mx what they think. Also remember they, the cartels) control many cities and Tamps (for all intents and purpose) by acts of terror.
My dos centavos
as defined by webster:
ReplyDeleteDefinition of TERRORISM
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion
and Narco-Terrorism
terrorism financed by profits from illegal drug trafficking
So instead of bringing into Mexico multiple countries for a hoedown, as in the Pablo Escobar's case, we can just label them as terrorist, and hit them from all angles where ever they stand. Especially knowing they are working abroad now.
ReplyDeleteWill this still lead to some U.S. intervention? What about other criminal organizations?
I think the cartels screwed up when they started getting innocent civilians involved because the Mexican government is using that as a selling point to brand the cartels as terrorists.
Terror,taking over the institutions of govt,holding an entire country hostage,if it was a religious or political group the Question of whether the Epedimic of crime in Mexico is a Terrorist assault would not be asked. The motivation of Terrorist is meaningless the upheval of society ,the murder,intimidation,is the same regardless of motivation.I can not understand why this situation in Mexico is still continuing,maby its because such a large number of people in Mexico are and have been involved and have profited and refuse to help make Mexico a Decent ,ethical,functioning country. What a great reputation Mexico has made for itsself misinformation,manipulation,inept,etc. and Mexicans wonder why they are looked at with suspicion.
ReplyDeleteIt is not terrorism under any relevant definition. There is no political purpose here or ideology being spread. It is simply organized crime for $$$.
ReplyDeleteThey are not terrorists. Acts of terror do not equal terrorism. The political context matters.
We've become a group of people that EVERYTHING that incites fear is terrorism related. By that thought, the police are terrorists too! That's laughable.
Many Mexicans live in fear and that is terrible. Criminal organizations run the country for profit, not ideology.
How would it change the situation to have the cartels branded as terrorist groups? The article mentions a range of additional tools it may make available but they all seemed rather toothless. I'm not sure how much the cartels would be impacted by financial efforts like freezing accounts. Aren't they already subject to those actions just by virtue of existing as criminal organizations with international reach? I can see how a more traditional terrorist group, one dependent upon sponsors for financial support, would be broken by this kind of sanction. The cartels on the other hand control a huge cash based revenue stream with an inflexible minimum market demand. Banking attacks against the cartels that already control the flow of vast amounts of cash and have the experience to manage that money despite it's illegal origin might prove more an inconvenience than a crippling blow.
ReplyDeleteThe targeting of the cartels' armed wings by international anti-terror agencies might help some. Yet I wonder what they can really do in a conflagration that is already on pace to kill over 26000 people this year. Short of putting international troops on site how much can these agencies do given the scale of the cartels' activities.
I believe they should be labeled Terrorist. Now what can the Government of Mexico do to get rid of these pest that are infesting the good people of Mexico? One is get rid of all the corrupt heads in the government(which will be difficult) this is one way. Two, I read a story about a 77yr old man Named Don Alejo Garza Tamez he stood up for what was his and his family. even though he died doing this his name came out in the Colorado paper as being compared to John Wayne a person who fought was is right. Mexicans in Mexico need to band together as a family and fight these morons who are striking fear into their hearts. Jesus said," fear not for i am with you" pray that they will do this and everything will come out good.
ReplyDeleteTerror is a person or thing that causes great fear.
ReplyDeleteTerrorism is acts inspiring terror as a means; of ruling; or, of expressing political opposition.
The cartels have set themselves up as the rulers of the territories they occupy and their rule is to instill fear in the population so they have free reign in those areas. If you disagree with them you die. If you call the cops when a cartel meember comits a crime, you die. If you don't pay the bribe to the cartel for protection, you die. If that isn't fear then their practice is not terror. By definition (from the dictionary), Cartels are terrorists.
hmmm...extortion, murder , attacks against the army and civilian authoritys , car bombs , grenades, roadblocks, kidnappings, virtual uncontested control of certain areas of the country, ..and generally terrorizing the population
ReplyDeletei don't know? ..you tell me ....
but only by Mexico, not as an excuse for the USA to intervene
It's pretty apparent now the absolute reactionary character of the Mexican government. Instead of opposing the US government introduction of a world where military prisoners are given no rights, by D.C. simply labeling some as 'terrorists' even as they resist invasion of their own countries by the US, the Mexican government wants all the stand by with their thumbs up their asses European governments to now help expand the Made in US category of POWs to include common criminals trafficking drugs in the near future.
ReplyDeleteThe Mexican government and the US government ultimately want all prisoners, where criminal or military, to be AUTOMATICALLY classified as not having any human rights or legal rights. Then the US could have things like campaigns against tattooed people, like what has already occurred in Central American puppet states of the US, where gang members and former gang members alike are targeted by the tattoos present on them, as being 'terrorists'. Round up time, like the Jews with Star of Davids once had administered to them by Nazis.
It is also clear, that the Obama Administration acts much like the previous Republican one, as it tries to push the world to greater and greater totalitarian measures such as labeling people 'terrorists' without any trial or judicial process and then denying them all human rights. What a crazy crazy world we are having the young enter into, and it is one where humans can be arbitrarily classified as essentially monsters, or as 'terrorists' as many of you would have it, without any due legal process or constitutional rights.
Amazing how many of you supposedly Freedom Loving fellow "Mericans love BIg Totalitarian Government, I think. More and more jails. More and more soldiers. More and more 'wars' without end. You want the whole rotten package! In fact, I don't think that there is anything from Big Corporatized Government you all won't buy while cheering wildly for it, just like a lynch mob in cowboy times of past.
Ernest1
So now the CIA, Pentagon and Mexican government is going to start wiretapping, implementing ridiculous security searches at airports etc., no-fly lists or no-border cross list and implementing a ridiculous Homeland security like-system in Mexico all in the name of protecting the Mexicans from "narco-terrorists"?? Will suspected/being a "narco-terrorists" human rights also be legally stripped away and legal torture will be conducted by the Mexican government on who ever is a suspect/being of being a "narco-terrorist"?? These guys are NOT terrorists they are organized crime groups and their sole purpose is money NOT spreading political or social goal ideology. Why is U.S citizen director of International Law Eduardo Buscaglia who serves as a as
ReplyDeletea legal/economic senior adviser to several international organizations (e.g. UN and World
Bank), bilateral institutions in the United States (e.g. USAID) and in Europe (e.g. GTZ),
and the US Government pressuring Mexico into labeling the cartels terrorist organizations???
But of course they should! They are creating terror thru intimidation, not only directed at the people involved in their dirty occupation, but they also terrorize those who have no choice but to put up with their crap on a day to day basis because the authorities do nothing to help protect the common people.
ReplyDelete@anon 12:48 You bring up alot of good points...labeling them is one thing, having the right plan to go after them is another matter.
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts are that the banks do not want this, they launder millions for the catels and their lobby/political power is mighty. Fact is the US DOD is already (quietly) working in Mexico, where do you think they got the Drone that crashed in El Paso and the intelligence to take out some of the key cartel leaders? Then there are the Wikileaks documents outlining covert actions. My hunch is Nopalitano and Obama want to keep it low key for political reasons, they have pandered to the Latino vote and have both been very clear that that they don't want to tick off potential voters. Hillary Clinton spoke out and was pretty honest about the narco situation but the administration made her backpedal on her statements, again so as not to piss of potential voters. My opinion is the pressure will get to DC in the form of states passing laws that force more awareness and public outcry. The lines between immigration and the narcos have been kept seperate in most political discussions however in my opinion the two subjects are relative in that without a secure border there can be little effective enforcement of either. The fact that Obama and Bush both did nothing has only allowed the problems to escalate and thus allowed the public to become more frustrated and angry, this has not won Mexico any points with the general public in the US, people have directed that anger at both the politicians in DC and the Mexican people and government.
ReplyDeleteHere in the states we have seen the media go nuts this week over the shooting of a politician and several others, yet I believe there have been 11 mayors killed in Mexico over the last year or so and no one even blinks, this comparison is pretty telling. Part of me cannot help but wonder a couple of things, if the folks in DC are just waiting for Mexico to become more vunerable and secondly what political or financial reasons are at play that keep the administration from doing more...in other words who's getting paid what? Fact is the DTO's are terrorists in a sense, based on the chaos and horror they they have brought upon the people of Mexico and the level to which they have infiltrated the government. I'd imagine the US intervention will be wrought with those who seek to make money off of the problem and that will only prolong the solution, remember Halliburton, Blackwater in Iraq? Calderon needs to cut the macho shit and ask for help before thousands more have to die, to continue to do the same things is only going to get him the same results. The stakes are increasing and the cartels are already working in Europe and dealing with arms traders from the middle east via the likes of Hugo Chavez, how long will it be before they become a larger more powerful global threat. This is not Mexico's problem alone, it affects us all on both sides of the border.
It is very confusing to wonder why Calderon has not done more to ask for help and then also as to why the US has not demanded more be done or openly taken up a role in fighting the DTO's, again I think most of it has to do with potential voters and money and then of course machisimo on the Mexican side. Had the US not been mired in a crock of shit so-called "war" in Iraq for years we might be in a better place to help out right next door. I see the problem in Mexico as being much more serious to the longterm welfare of the US than the crap going on overseas. I think the DTO's are terrorists in a sense but I also shudder to think about what ilk will seek to line their pockets should the UN agree. Sad to say it but it appears that colonialism is still alive and well in the Americas. One thing is for sure, I will be asking much tougher questions of those who want my vote in the future, I'd suggest others do the same.
Point of Info once again. I have watched with amusement as two newer characters have begun to post on BB. One labels himself as 'EarniesWorld', a name chosen to be similar to my own e-name, Ernest1, and I think that the choosing of such a similar name to mine was intentionally used to confuse BB people here, which in fact it has done many times already. He is not I, and despite him choosing this confusing name to mess up, smoke up, cloud over the discussion more at BB, his opinions are entirely his own..... and not mine.
ReplyDeleteThe other e-name by a new poster here inspired by my own comments is that of 'ImJUSTAGIRL' or whatever letters this BB poster uses to describe what they most probably simply are not. This e-name came out of the cackles of dismay coming from some BB regulars, when I called beautiful Buela 'hussy'. So cutesy to then label oneself 'ImJUSTAGIRL' was it not? How clever some can be, it seems..... NOT.
Ernest1
urny ..where U at ..this is yer oyster man ..i figured you would be all over this one..the evil yankee imperialist running dogs americanos are all behind this...
ReplyDeleteand B yeap i am with you i don't think caldo ron wants any interference..he has about reduced it to two main players ...the always popular shorty gang...and his perzonal petz ..that is all you need to whoop ass in the next election..
@ E!
ReplyDeleteooppsss ....spoke too soon ..there ya are ..ok ...all is right with the world now...
too bad any mouses are "skipping" you..that was good rant...
To label them as terrorists would make matters worse. Cartel bosses will be offended and that just leaves more dead people. If thats what you want than be a dumb ass and do it.
ReplyDeletehey Earnest, I see what you are getting at. The "legal definition" would invite a host of good and bad laws and regulations. Which might lead to more sinister earthly situations...and I can't say that won't happen...
ReplyDeleteHowever in the spirit of the word Terrorism...these DTO's got it down.
So where do we go from here Earnest?
''lito'brito said...'urny ..where U at ..this is yer oyster man'
ReplyDeleteI still been wrestling with you swamp monsters at BB Lucha Libre, Oyster Man. Don't worry your heart too much about me just yet... because I love you neks still! (Can't say 'redneck' here or the pc cops will come and handcuff me for supposedly being an anti-White Anglo racist and TERRORIST!)
E1
ruling by fear is an ideology...
ReplyDeleteto a certain extent all govts use fear to control...but at least that fear is filtered through legal systems and the expectation of just or humane treatment..
these narcos go straight to the chopping block..or hanging tree...talk about lynching..hanged upside down from a bridge headless and naked
or having big brother looking over your shoulder...
unless you don't believe any of it and all this stuff on the news and BB is just wag the dog...
@ Ernest1, I'm not really copying your ideas or opinions these are my own like you stated and I didn't choose this name to confuse the people here in BB. I made this account with the name EarniesWorld 8 months ago before I even knew about BB(I come from BlogdelNarco). Also for the name of EarniesWorld, it's because I like Earnie from Sesame Street, you know the orange guy. I also post as SahidMarquez here because I have 2 Youtube accounts and sometimes forget to log on as EarniesWorld. Now back to topic. I think the U.S just wants an excuse to get involved in Mexico's problem weather is physical soldiers or behind the scenes without Mexican/U.S citizen reprocussion by naming cartels as terrorists. Also to U.S citizens what is a terrorists to you???
ReplyDeleteyeah we all polishin' each otras asses nowadays man...gotta band tagether ginst them 'ol any mouses ...jajajjajaaa
ReplyDeleteOK, EarniesWorld. Got you. Unfortunately people do seem to confuse us two though, and because of that I'm going to start posting simply as E1 more often. Our views do seem to parallel quite a lot, too. People just get confused by that since most of these BB Barbarians seem to think there can only be one Left Winger left in the new USA BoboLandia.
ReplyDeleteNow... @ Brito...
'to a certain extent all govts use fear to control...but at least that fear is filtered through legal systems and the expectation of just or humane treatment..'
That depends on what government one is ruled by? Our current US government is under a gigantic campaign to put many of us citizens under a regime without any real legal protections, and most especially dem 'foreigners', too. And the US government really runs most of the world, directly or indirectly.
Unlike you, Birto, I am more scared of Big Corporate 'Brother', and not so much penny ante narcos, who you say give you the jitters, Mr Ex Navy Man Brito. You want to give away all the rights you have ever might had to Big Corproate Government, in the hope that they will what???? protect you from the Zetas??? Poor soul, and poor choice. You're not scared a bit by the overly militarized US society which you chose to join up with, but hold in all your hated and fears to when it comes to people called El Tomate and Tony Tormenta! Good grief!
E1
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gcRAr6UvwgW7hrdXnAI7ggD7snDA?docId=5b61e442873e4ae08a4101585ddfb909
ReplyDeleteI say KILL them all and mexico will be saved.
ReplyDeleteany news on this guy here..
ReplyDeleteRogelio Loredo Guzmán, de 22 años de edad
apperantly he was picked up from a party last night. think he's any kin to shorty?
dbgh
*This is my second attempt at posting this, apparently my try earlier did not make it.*
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts are that the banks do not want this, they launder millions for the catels and their lobby/political power is mighty. Fact is the US DOD is already (quietly) working in Mexico, where do you think they got the Drone that crashed in El Paso and the intelligence to take out some of the key cartel leaders? Then there are the Wikileaks documents outlining covert actions. My hunch is Nopalitano and Obama want to keep it low key for political reasons, they have pandered to the Latino vote and have both been very clear that that they don't want to tick off potential voters. Hillary Clinton spoke out and was pretty honest about the narco situation but the administration made her backpedal on her statements, again so as not to piss of potential voters. My opinion is the pressure will get to DC in the form of states passing laws that force more awareness and public outcry. The lines between immigration and the narcos have been kept seperate in most political discussions however in my opinion the two subjects are relative in that without a secure border there can be little effective enforcement of either. The fact that Obama and Bush both did nothing has only allowed the problems to escalate and thus allowed the public to become more frustrated and angry, this has not won Mexico any points with the general public in the US, people have directed that anger at both the politicians in DC and the Mexican people and government.
Here in the states we have seen the media go nuts this week over the shooting of a politician and several others, yet I believe there have been 11 mayors killed in Mexico over the last year or so and no one even blinks, this comparison is pretty telling. Part of me cannot help but wonder a couple of things, if the folks in DC are just waiting for Mexico to become more vunerable and secondly what political or financial reasons are at play that keep the administration from doing more...in other words who's getting paid what? Fact is the DTO's are terrorists in a sense, based on the chaos and horror they they have brought upon the people of Mexico and the level to which they have infiltrated the government. I'd imagine the US intervention will be wrought with those who seek to make money off of the problem and that will only prolong the solution, remember Halliburton, Blackwater in Iraq? Calderon needs to cut the macho shit and ask for help before thousands more have to die, to continue to do the same things is only going to get him the same results. The stakes are increasing and the cartels are already working in Europe and dealing with arms traders from the middle east via the likes of Hugo Chavez, how long will it be before they become a larger more powerful global threat. This is not Mexico's problem alone, it affects us all on both sides of the border.
It is very confusing to wonder why Calderon has not done more to ask for help and then also as to why the US has not demanded more be done or openly taken up a role in fighting the DTO's, again I think most of it has to do with potential voters and money and then of course machisimo on the Mexican side. Had the US not been mired in a crock of shit so-called "war" in Iraq for years we might be in a better place to help out right next door. I see the problem in Mexico as being much more serious to the longterm welfare of the US than the crap going on overseas. I think the DTO's are terrorists in a sense but I also shudder to think about what ilk will seek to line their pockets should the UN agree. Sad to say it but it appears that colonialism is still alive and well in the Americas. One thing is for sure, I will be asking much tougher questions of those who want my vote in the future, I'd suggest others do the same.
As it stands the US can't freeze any accounts of non-us criminal organizations unless there is a traceable series of crimes comitted in the USA. The US can't stop any exports to the cartel as a criminal organization, unless the exported material is illegal to take to anyone in Mexico.
ReplyDeleteNor can they stop wire transfers of funds to members of a foreign criminal organization. They can't stop transactions to Mexican suppliers for cartels. With the designation of terror organization all of these can be done. Not only the USA but every other nation may join in and do a lot to cut off the things needed to make the cartels work. Visitor visas can be denied easier, thorough searches inbound and when leaving a foreign country.
I doubt the USA has any interest in invading Mexico. I can't say the same for places like Cuba or Venezuela. But most nations have enough problems themselves and don't want any more from being in Mexico. So, foreign invasions are not likely to happen. (Unless requested by Mexico)
But, from what I see in BB and other sources, the Mexican military seems to be doing a fairly good job at beating them on most encounters.
@E1 How do you get the idea that the USA is overly militarized? And, also how do you get the idea that big corporations run the government. If they do it's because the people of the USA elected the wrong ones to Congress. There is a movement going on that is trying to change that pattern. They are people that want integrity and national loyalty in their government. Their influence was felt in the last election and it did force a bit of change.
I am aware that there is a similar movement in Mexico that wants the cartels out. Theu want Mexico back and I applaud their effort. I am positive it is a good thing for Mexico. The honest people all over Mexico should support this effort.
When prople are gunned down because they exercise their free speech and protest wrongdoing, that is terrorism. Newspaper reporters are murdered for printing the truth, that is terrorism. Families flee their own country for safety, that is caused by terrorism. This world needs to be rid of the terror plague. It has no place in the Americas Hemisphere and we should all pull together to get rid of it as soon as it appears, anywhere. There are things that all nations can do to help when the group is designated a terrorist organiation. And, they doen't even have to be in Mexico to do it.
@ Ernest1
ReplyDeleteYou Know when a White Man Becomes a Redneck ?
When he leaves the Room !
Anyway,nobody is going to offend this Gringo by calling him a Redneck,Hell,I even Lived in Baja for a couple of years,good times,but that was 10 years ago before the Pinche Narcos started getting way too crazy.
Hell yes! I would kiss Calderon's ring if he would authorize a few hundred military death squad units; Suspend the constitution then declare martial law and get to killing these F-ing animals. The military and police agencies know where they are located. No mercy should be given. Kill them no matter what. No prisoners unless they are big fish. Screw Human Rights Watch and any other pansy organization that have feelings for these terrorists. F-ing punks.
ReplyDeleteguero ..you make a lot of sense..keep posting
ReplyDeleteThis is an exerpt from Grovers post above. Article from AP:
ReplyDeleteGang's terror felt far from drug war on US border:
"The Mexicans say the Zetas have hired Guatemalan former counterinsurgency soldiers to train new recruits, and a Zetas training camp for hit men was uncovered on the Guatemalan border last year.
Alejandro Poire, Mexico's government spokesman for security issues, said the reported scope of Zetas activity in southern Mexico is hardly comparable to the turf battle raging between the Zetas and their competitors in the north, where a split from their former employers, the Gulf Cartel, has sparked regular grenade attacks and daylight shootouts.
But to Solalinde, the Zetas "are a terrible de facto power.". . .
You do not have to have a specific political ideology to be considered a 'terrorist organization.' Recent history has associated terrorists with political agendas because the FARC, Taliban, ELN and other groups have had either religious or leftist political agendas they were trying to impose on the 'capitalist west.'
DTO's are equal or greater in their terrorist actions, they just don't care what particular political group is in power as long as it THEIR political group. Which is usually radical and leftist. Groups of individuals commiting terror against the citizens and government of a country are TERRORISTS! Period.
Brito, Ernest, and Buela please stop hogging this site. Don't you all have a life?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Guero... there is no better explanation. :)))
ReplyDeleteWow, E1... didn't know I had struck such a note of discord with you. My name comes from a song by "No Doubt", and I am just a girl. If it makes you happier, I will not sign any name in the future, and you'll know not who stokes your ire.
ReplyDeleteIn the U.S. money is politics. With the narco industry showing $40+Billion/year do you not think it is in Washington D.C.? They know Wells Fargo, Wachovia, and Bank of America laundered billions, possibly over a trillion dollars with no penalties when discovered. The only way to stop the corruption at all our borders is to stop the money flow. LOL, you have to have honesty to do that. Honesty and Politician have difficulties being related in any country.
ReplyDeleteTo EarniesWorld and others....uh, it is not the US that wants to label these groups Terrorists. It is a professor at a Mexican university...if you are not going to even read the article before spouting off, don't bother.
ReplyDeleteAs to those that don't think it is terrorism, are these heinous criminal actions designed to terrify citizens? Yep! So, by it's very definition, it IS terrorism! Do they meddle in politics to create a different government that is more amenable to their cause? Yep!
Defining these groups as terrorists opens the door to a lot of international help. You can solve this quickly with help from the outside, or preserve your pride and die from within.
Oh, and I am a Canadian who has lived in Monterrey the past 6 years and live this shit every day.
Unfortunately, to add to all the game playing at BB with false identities, somebody (a cyber-turkey perhaps?) has just falsely posted in my name at 10:08 as they go on to then call me a 'cyber-bully'. It's a shame to see a site trashed out in this manner by idiots acting up like so many Right Wing twerps are so prone to do. If anybody is a cyber-bully it is somebody who falsely posts in somebody else's name that is being such.
ReplyDeleteAnd in answer to that other person who asked me several questions on this thread here...
'@E1 How do you get the idea that the USA is overly militarized? And, also how do you get the idea that big corporations run the government.'
Answer #1- By the fact that the Pentagon has about 800 bases overseas, and that the US government outspends what all other countries added up together do on their militaries. That's how I get the opinion that the US is over militarized. Not really hard to come to that conclusion. PLUS, every town I seem to have lived in has bases all around it, military planes flying around in circles, and war production industries abounding.
And Answer #2 is that I get the idea that corporations run the government simply because that's where both parties in our rather undemocratic system get their money mainly from. Can anybody really still deny that both parties are bought by the big corporations these days? Kind of hard to believe it????
And now to reply to another Anonymous, the one posting at 9:11 pm tonight....
'Anonymous said...
Brito, Ernest, and Buela please stop hogging this site. Don't you all have a life?'
Sir Anonymous, my interest is held in this site having just heard on the telephone tonight that the second person in my wife's small town of about 100 folk in Tamaulipas has just been hauled away for good by cartel members or non-uniformed Mexican soldiers the day before yesterday. That's called being 'disappeared', Dude. See how it might make one interested in getting AnonyMoes like yourself better informed than they evidently are?
Ernest1
Sorry. Couldn't help myself! Just funning you, E1!
ReplyDeleteYes, they are terrorists, plain and simple. I hunted terrorists in Iraq, Kuwait and Qatar and if I am ever given the chance , I would GLADLY hunt the narco-terrorists down. I would treat you like the swine you are and afford no quarter. Your day is coming Chapo, y Diego (Juarez) and all you other people that are spineless, weak and hide behind your shell pig of a government.
ReplyDeletew'sup ernest uno? where have you been?
ReplyDeletesometimes i have the tendency to enter a discussion late. i like to read everyone's comments first and then come up with my own theory. i even read urny's radical opinions about fictitious conspiracies. i've read many great comments by anonymous writers and i just don't understand why you don't come out? especially the ones who criticize. if you have problems signing in, then just put a name at the bottom of your comment the way good ol' urny does. don't be scared to reveal yourself a little.
should mexican cartels be labeled terrorist organizations?
well if your a mexican, yes
but if your an american, no
they are not a terrorist threat to the U.S. until they make a deliberate attack which they have'nt and won't. they know better. it would dangerously interfere with their drug trafficking. and the U.S. cannot invade mexico unless we are seriously and directly attacked or asked by the mexican government to help. look what happened with the miami drug wars in the 70's and 80's. those latin gangs posed a terrorist threat towards the citizens. and what did the U.S. government do to the miami cartels who were having bloody shootouts all over miami's streets, even in a miami mall, and began to enforce control of the city? the U.S. government squashed them. after that peace ensued. (the miami drug wars inspired the movie scarface and the t.v. show miami vice). the shooting on falcon lake even caused friction within the zetas organization. so neither the U.S. nor the cartels want to go to war becuase it would cause collateral damage, not to mention, it would cost both the mexican cartels and the united states mafia billions of dollars(oh no!).
so what can the U.S. do to maintain it's own security? protect it's side of the border with an ineffective billion dollar fence that covers only parts of california, arizona, and texas. and creating immigration laws to control the mexican population and to regulate mexican criminality in the U.S. and also give mexico money, equipment, arms, information, and training(including torture training) through the merida initiative.
and what will the mexican government do? they will do what they've always done throughout history and that's TAKE. they will keep taking from the U.S. government. so i don't believe that this is colonialism. both countries use each other.
as far as the U.S. government trying to make money off of this drug war. i don't believe this. i think that this war is costly for the U.S.. and as far as the U.S. making money off the drugs themselves. i think the U.S. has chosen to make it's money off of pharmaceuticals(the legal drugs). street drugs are too petty for american corporations to make money from.
if the mexican government just asked for help, the U.S. could assist mexico with it's border cities and mexico could focus more on it's southern states. but of course this will never happen becuase the mexican government's tendency to lean towards machismo and mexican pride. if mexico openly asked for help, i believe that the U.S. would assist.
so meanwhile, drugs and people will continue to flow north and guns and money will continue to flow south.
mexico is most to blame for it's own problems.
@ ernest uno
ReplyDeletepicking on another female? first a woman, now just a girl. shame on you urny!
Locate the money and seize it and the war will be half over.
ReplyDeleteI would put a bounty on their heads...
ReplyDeleteI would ecourage anyone who does not believe that large banks and corporations are not relevant to the narco trade to do some research, start with IBC bank. They also own an aviation company as well as real estate holdings and certain people in the organisation are tied to many who have questionable backgrounds at best. And as someone else mentioned Wells Fargo and others were found to be involved in money laundering as well and were handed heavy fines by the government, of course that was before the banking bail outs. It is no secret that the folks at IBC are closely tied to some of the most powerful people in Mexico and serve together on the boards of several trade organisations, they make the deals that serve their interests...if you are going to launder money you need a banker, it is even better if they own planes and companies in the real estate sector. Then there is the fact that D. Nixon has made huge political contributions to the republican party and was chair of John McCains campaign in Texas.
ReplyDeleteI have found sources that claim the cash goes south to a cambio exchange then gets wired back to "certain" banks, gets moved a couple more times then it is clean. Some of it may even be invested in real estate in places like San Antonio or along the border, the dots are easy to connect if you dig deep enough. It is amazing what you can find on a county tax appraisal website.
Maybe this will help give an idea of how the connections work, or have worked in the past.
http://www.elandar.com/bush/amigos.html
IBC and their friend C. Foster (former Eagle Pass mayor and Real Estate Broker) can be traced back directly to the FORMER governor of Coahuila who also happens to own several very expensive homes in Texas and Vail Colorado. I say former because he recently resigned in order to persue a much more powerful position in the PRI party. Here is the story on that. http://www.thenews.com.mx/index.php/mexico/m02-5373.htm
It is my feeling that not all of the criminals tote machine guns and drive around in stolen suburbans, some wear 3 piece suits and walk freely among us daily. Some even donate to charities and pretend to serve their communities in order to disguise their involvement in nefarious acts.
Some of these people have had their lawyers shoot out letters threatening people who have written about them and thier alleged misdeeds in an attempt to keep things quiet. I know it happened a while back when some planes related to IBC were discovered to have been involved in the narco trade, in the end those records were sealed.
While we stand around and try to label each other "dirty teabaggers" or "whiny liberals" our leaders are ignoring serious problems. Beneath the rhetoric lies a number of problems that need to be dealt with, and until we stop the polarizing behavior we will not be able to hold our elected officials accountable. We live in a time where he who makes the largest campaign contribution wins the most favor.
guero for pres...
ReplyDeletegood stuff man
yeap the guys getting chopped up are not the real fish ..just minnows.. none of the real crooks are walking the desert with a backpack full..or swimming the river..thats for sure...funny i was just thinking bout IBC the other day..international bank of commerce...if there ever was a suspicious bank that is it ..even the name smacks of shady dealings
never forget that calderon y PAN was the favorite of the bush admin...and look what is really happening here ..just thinning the herd ..kicking some asses into line...but the drug traffic has not really slowed down..and what happens to ALL the money that gets confiscated...still no real attempt by Mexico or the USA to really secure the border area..if you have ever been around the frontera chica area ..you know what a joke it is..it is wide open....PAN smacks the, what looks to be remaining two main players into line..PAN stays in power...and Washington is happy...it settles down and the beat goes on....too much dinero to actually stop the flow
@ guero
ReplyDeletei'm not contradicting your comments. of course what you said was true. we all know that somehow drug money gets laundered into the united states through our banks, real estate, and legitimate business. but if the united states government really wanted to make a bigger investment in the drug business, all they would have to do is legalize drugs and make real profits by taxing the drugs. as far as drugs is concerned, pharmaceuticals is where the money is at.
i just feel different about your theory that the mexican cartels have possibly infiltrated into our government by using their money and the bank's power to pursuade the politicians and the U.S. government to turn a blind eye or possibly even accepting pay-offs to keep drugs illegal and then keeping it hush-hush for the sake of winning an election(let's not forget that it was also the young voters that played a key part in obama's election win). i don't fully believe in that conspiracy theory.
but i do agree that the banks and rich corporations do have the power to persuade the outcome of an election win. george dubya's fake election win is a perfect example of that. it is the big corporations and banks that run this country; bank of america being the largest which made in consolidated assests a whopping amount of $2,340,667,014 as of march, 2010. WTF! and they say we're close to experiencing a double-dip recession? the banks would be fine without el chapo guzman(he made #937 in 2010). he does'nt even come close to making the forbes top ten list. and you think that los zetas are going to have any power to influence anyone in the U.S. who has power?
it's the tycoons, C.E.O.'s, and stock brokers that have all the power and control the U.S.
if mexico really wants help all they have to do is "holla" at the U.S. and we will assist them but then that would mean that the mexican government would have to change their corrupt ways and i don't think that they are ready to do that yet. there is still too much money to be made.
@ lito brito
ReplyDeletelol guero for pres... and ernest uno for vice president jaja J/K
the most notorious of the powerful banks is goldman sachs. they are known in the industry for being named "the wall street gangstas". and for good reason too.
Wells Fargo has already been caught laundrying money...
ReplyDeleteThe info is out there, as citizens of US we need to seek it out and get it in print. That may put a stop to some of the illegal actions going on over here...
Most banks are honest though, and teach their employees how to watch for $laundrying...
Don't forget, we have a system of checks and balances in the US...Americans need to get more involved with the checking and balancing...
@ Layla 2
ReplyDeleteyea its a show that these banks haven't been called out. But what else can we expect?
Personally I've always thought there HAS to be some collusion between organized crime and the banking system. Its simply impossible to sleep on a pile of money that big. you have to stash it somewhere (or bury it in a treasure chest like you are a goddamn pirate).
In any case, we re-posted a story by the San Antonio Express News about this very subject (includes mainstream content that blurbs about Wells Fargo and Bank of America in the linked vids). Worth taking a look at.
http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2010/09/banks-not-paying-price-of-role-in-drug.html
@ ajulio
ReplyDeleteThanks for the civil response to my rant.
My assertion was not that the politicians are paid directly but let me assure you I have dealt with enough of them to know that a fat donation goes a long way towards winning a person or group favor. If you want to speak to one about a concern you simply buy a $1000 ticket to a fundraising dinner, if you want real favors you donate much more. The following spells it out: "D. Nixon is chair of International Bancshares Corp., parent of the International Bank of Commerce (IBC), which has 90 branches with assets of more than $4.5 billion. Nixon is a former president of the Laredo Chamber of Commerce and sat on George W. Bush’s Governor’s Business Council. Nixon raised $300, 000 for Bush’s 1998 gubernatorial campaign in a single event. IBC has extensive business with Mexican banks, businesses and maquiladora assembly plants and Nixon was a major proponent of the North American Free Trade Agreement. Pioneer Tony Sanchez is an IBC co-founder and its top investor. Sanchez also founded Tesoro Savings & Loan, which was implicated in the laundering of $25 million in Mexican drug money before it failed in 1988 at a federal cost of $161 million. IBC was one of the banks that lobbied Congress in 2000 to defeat a post-September-11th bill to discourage money laundering."
Now why the feds arent up these guys asses with a magnifying glass is beyond me, but then again it could be that they are friends with all the right people and spread their money around to those who do their bidding. Consider that members of Congress make about $174,000 a year, that is chump change compard to the money flying around behind the scenes.
A couple years back I served on the board of diectors for a certain group, we wanted some federal laws changed and contacted a lobby firm in DC to discuss the matter. We spoke to a former politician from Texas and he said give me a few days to check it out on "The Hill", he called back in a few days and said "We can get it done for $250,000", he was that blunt about it, no maybe no wavering he said it would be done just like that. The money goes to the lobby firm, they take their fee then they make contributions to key members of congress who head certain committees and can gain support/favor from their fellow members of congress, of course the ranking members usually lead the newbies along and they go with the flow. The contributions are spread out through political action groups so as to make it look like several seperate donations that are not connected. That my friend is how you get things done in DC!
One more thing, the folks in DC make more money from illegal drugs than they would legalizing them. Hell, the private prison system is but one example of that money trail. We would have lots of half full private prisons if drugs were legalized and that would not please the prison owning friends of many politicians who get their funding from the feds. That is a whole other discussion.
YESSS!!!!
ReplyDeletenow we are on to something...getting close to the bone ...now to identify who owns these banks...and what banks own them...can we trace it all the way back to the cite of london and the bank of England...listen for the clink of the coins behind the veil...
my little theory is that this whole thing is a takeover consolidation of the drug business by the big international players ..a la Panama/Colombia..Afghanistan...the asian "golden triangle"
and the banks have to be complicit someway or another ,,,maybe even the lower rank banks and bankers have no knowledge of it and are just dupes ...but i would bet that at the higher levels ...they are in full cahoots
remember that part in the movie Scarface ..when he was talking with this banker about how to launder the money, and he says the bankers are the real crooks...uhuh...the truth revealed
@ guero y Ajulio
ReplyDeletei am sure you guys have seen all this ...but this is still a good chart
http://www.zimbio.com/David+de+Rothschild/articles/6/Wo+Owns+Federal+Reserve+Rothschilds+Bank+England
@ just a girl...
ReplyDeleteErnest is an ass. do not pay attention to him. I got the No Doubt connection, I am a fan being she is a hometown girl to boot.
actually I am of the thought that ernest 1 is a female. just a feeling, he is a sissy of sorts
whoa ..burn urny..ouch!!!!
ReplyDeletehey just a girl... second dat..don't become an any mouse ...we gotta 'nuff uvem already
Buela, you are a strange 'girl' to be calling others 'sissies' and 'asses'. I'm surprised that you can find time from doing all that 'humanitarian' work of yours, that you tell us constantly you are constantly engaged in, to take aim at me out of the clear blue sky once again? Oh, Mama, they need you back at the Goodie Two Shoes farm once again, don't they?
ReplyDeleteI guess it's just rankles you yokels that I am about the only consistent BB poster that will tell people that it is a bad idea to allow the US government to classify cartel members as terrorists? Boo-hoo-hoo, You Right Wing duds. Is there any war that you all won't get all hard ons about in cheering for? And Ernest1 won't let you do your circle yank all in peace?
Ernest1
Urn 1
ReplyDeleteSorry, you are the weirdo, focusing on the names people use...saying one is trying to confuse people, as if anyone could become confused, it only takes a paragraph. And this "Just a Girl" why in the world would that bother anyone? only you.
I have NO IDEA what the heck your last paragraph means...and I would like to keep it that way. in your case...LESS IS BETTER,,,NONE IS BEST
@ guero
ReplyDeleteYou made your point. I look forward to reading more of your comments.
Guero...I am impressed with your posts, much of which I am in agreement. Each is well researched and fact based...love it.
ReplyDeleteTo All; cartels are in 43 countries laundering $ through legit businesses and banks, many of the countries have little oversight. We must stop thinking just in terms of US. Cartel business is a global affair, and now has taken over european drug markets from Colombia, in additiona to their many investments, and washing of funds.
here is a link to a perfume company ( LA AZ TX) busted for laundering money through their biz for Sinaloa...
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2011/01/19/2011-01-19_nab_perfumer_in_drug_loot_stink.html?r=news
cant wait for them to be labeled terrorist's anyone who says they aint works for them. not only are they killing people but the enviorment they set up allows for other groups to operate carjackings and stuff and the fact that zeta is training counter insergencey tactics proves they trying to defend what they consider thiers.
ReplyDeletesome mexicans may take pride in the cartels thinking they are all powerful but in reality cartels are very weak. once they are labeled terrorists then they gonna fight a whole new class of soldiers. cartels have been trained yes but all they do is party. the real soldier that work counter terrorism train day after day and dont party at all and have dealed with many more power groups then these young cartels. pablo escobar was surely more powerful and so was bin laden or the groups that commit genocide in africa. mexican cartels have no clue what is coming for them.
cartels powerful cause guns and fools who torture people but they have no air power. once they labeled terrorists there gonna be hell to pay
believe me when i tell you because i am a criminal in usa who spent 8.5 years in prison between the age of 13-24 im now 35.
ReplyDeletethe CIA/FBI have informants everywhere and i mean everywhere. they been waiting for this to happen for a long time what do you think will happen to MS-13 gangs in usa once these guys all labeled terrorists.
also for years and years many druglords have laughed at USA because they safe in mexico but that will soon end as terrorists no where in the world will be safe for them.
and you best believe when i tell you that just because the CIA/FBI cant "cross the border" dont mean they havent used the millions of informants they have to compile massive databases on each cartel
here is a drugwar timeline it only goes up untill 2000 but very informative look at american side
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/drugs/cron/