Although Hipolito Mora and his men never denied that they fired their weapons, the judge somehow believes that the fact that these men tested positive for gun powder residue is relevant.--un vato
DISTRITO FEDERAL.-- Hipolito Mora and his men tested positive in the gun powder residue test, which confirms that they fired weapons in the shootout that left 11 people dead in La Ruana, and the majority of the wounds in the bodies are consistent with the calibers they were using, Judge Consuelo Lopez Ramirez (left)pointed out.
"According to the facts in the file, Mr. Hipolito Mora as well as the persons who were with him had pistols (armas cortas) as well as rifles (armas largas). And according to the file, the majority of those weapons were of .223 caliber", she indicated in an interview.
"According to the autopsies performed on the bodies, although it was not feasible to determine in every case the caliber of the weapon (sic) that penetrated their bodies, in the majority of the cases, it was determined that it was .223 caliber".
She specified that the gun powder residue test showed positive in both hands for the 27 defendants.
"Those are the facts that I have in order to establish their participation in carrying out the actions, so their submission to trial is ordered.," she said.
The judge revealed that in the La Ruana confrontation there were more than 1,500 shots fired; 1,218 shots with .223 caliber and the remainder with diverse calibers.
In addition, there was evidence in the file that fragmentation grenades were used, since four .40 caliber casings were found for this type of weapon.
With respect to the argument by the defense for Hipolito Mora and his group acted in self defense, she explained that this is the same argument being made by the other group that participated in the shootout, which is led by Luis Antonio Torres, "El Americano".
"That is to say, there are two versions. I do not have solid evidence to establish without a doubt that they were in fact attacked, that they were attacked
Castillo planned the attack on hipolito because a few days before the attack hipolitos made some very controvertials statements where he said that the security in michoacan was a desmadre this of course is not very news for castillo because is like saying that he is not doing his job right so he panned the attack very good by having a meeting in apatzingan to let all the ex self defense groups from all the municipalities know that no one could go armed to another municipality if they do so they will arrested so all the leaders from the municipalities agreed to it and a few days later booom the attack occurred none self defense groups could go to help hipolitos group because if they do so they will break the agreement they just did before and they will be arrested of course castillo did this on porpuse to give the green light on americano to ahead and attack hipolito.
ReplyDeleteI think El Americano is going to leave this ordeal a happy free many, and this judge is going to leave this ordeal a happy wealthy woman.
ReplyDeleteAnd I think the authorities are making less effort to capture La Tuta than they were to capturing Mireles and Mora.
What effort to capture Tuta?
DeleteWell said.
DeleteOne could say that is one stupid argument. How in the hell would they not have gun powder residue if you shoot in self defense? In that case El Americano's group would fit the same argument for I am sure they too had gun powder residue with out a doubt.
ReplyDeleteI guess there is no better proof of self defense with Mora's son being dead. Based on her reasoning El Americano and his group should be charged as well.
Yeah the issue is, more people died on Americano's side and the caliber that Mora's men used is the .223 which what every dead person on Americano's side was shot with. Of course this was done in self defense but they might just "see it" as Mora's men Killed americanos men without remourse
DeleteFederal District of Mexico City has until 2016 to complete implementation of the reforms. In jurisdictions that have implemented the Adversarial Criminal Procedure System (reformed), the proceedings are now based on the presumption of innocence and trials must be public. The Inquisitorial Criminal Procedure System (system prior to reforms) does not insist upon the presumption of innocence. This judge appears to have her head screwed on backwards. One must trust that she will use this same twisted logic when deciding El Americano's 'fate'. I apologize if this posts twice ~ glitch with my laptop...
ReplyDeleteblatant corruption. these politicians need to be taken out. Mexico can't get any worse. death to these politicians and their families!
ReplyDeleteThe real question is what is this woman doing out of the kitchen. Obviously doesnt have enough sense to hold a judiciary position.
ReplyDeletePerhaps her background and credentials should be verified, after all everyone knows that in Mexico money can buy anything. Could she have bought her law & justice credentials?
Delete8:54 You're right.
DeleteMomento. Momento'. Camara. ... Aicion.
ReplyDeleteaaaaaaaaaaaaand the systematic destruction of the autodefensas is close to being finished. imprison dr. mireles and now work your corrupt magic and ruin another autodefensa leader and destroy his credibility.
ReplyDeletethis is systemic political corruption 101. its fascinatingly sad to see how EPN's government absolutely crushed the autodefensa movement.
sad sad situation in mexico.
In the end it is always the same....."According to the autopsies performed on the bodies, although it was not feasible to determine in every case the caliber of the weapon (sic) that penetrated their bodies, in the majority of the cases, it was determined that it was .223 caliber".
ReplyDeleteKey point being it was not feasible to determine in every case the caliber. This is an understatement as the cause of death in a real autopsy is and will be determined by the projectile and trajectory of same if any and as in the is case bullets and grenade fragments. If it is not feasible then these autopsies are not credible and because gunpowder residue was found on the persons means nothing.
The results are too one-sided and the .223 calibers are the AR-15 and Mini-14. What about all the slugs fired by el Americano and the AK rounds? Nothing here is conclusive and until el Americano is charged Mora is the latest in addition to Mexican scapegoats.
Telephonic and radio evidence indicates Mora was under attack and ambushed and the police and military failed to respond in the hopes that probably el Americano would finish the job he was ordered to do by the feds. Eliminate Mora at all costs.
This judge is weak and incompetent and a bottom tier puppet for the government. Her judicial basis and grade school logic is that both sides are using the same defense, meaning that Mora is lying and el Americano was defending himself in Mora's attack. Stupidity at its best. There is no sufficient evidence that Mora instituted or is culpable in this attack and murders.
This is the same judge, Consuelo Lopez Ramirez, who cleared a Michoacán police agent of murder even though there is video footage the officer firing his rifle toward the victim.
In her ruling, Judge Maria del Consuelo Lopez Ramirez argued there wasn't enough evidence to prove that agent Gilberto Nezahualcoyotl Gamez Coria killed the worker, Alberto Castillo Rodri'guez.
She said it is unclear in the case presented by prosecutors whether Gamez Coria fired to repel an attack by the striking workers or expressly disobeyed commands by superiors only to fire rubber bullets above the workers' heads.
The video, obtained by EL UNIVERSAL, shows Gamez Coria drawing aim and firing an AR-15 rifle. According to state prosecutors, it is still unclear exactly what caliber weapon was used to kill Castillo Rodriguez. Gamez Coria does not appear to be in immediate danger in the video.
Her gross incompetence is overwhelming and she is no doubt on the payroll of la Tuta since the beginning.
Simple argument....if the calibers were consistent with Mora's weapons then why were all of el Americano's weapons rounded up and removed from the area? Why were they not tested or were the AR's removed and the other weapons returned? Hard to believe that in this cartel war that the most used weapons are the .223 and .308 and el Americano's crew had no .223's. Hard to believe.
Blind justice and they think we are all stupid that what they say we believe. This is becoming more and more of a repressed society with the cartel hitmen acting as government security forces.
i agree. the judge is a dope and needs to be charged with El Americano. Nothing adds up in mexico. 1 plus 1 is supposed to equal 2, but in Mexico 1 plus 1 equals anything but 2. The government says its 3 then its 3. How fucking stupid do they really believe the citizens to be? Just how fucking stupid? charge and hang the judge.
DeleteYup, living on a backwards world! This is why El Americano was so confident when he was arrested! The deal is already pre - arainged! Fools will be the ones that work with the current government from here on out!
DeleteShe is bought and paid for
ReplyDeleteWaith a min.. what if she has no other choice?? what if she doesn't do what 'they' (some criminal thug/s. etc..) told her to do she/family pay with their lifes?? that is the problem in mx. Even if someone could change her it would probably happen the same thing... They would take the bribe & stay alive..? mexicans are really messd up all the way to the "root". Simple as that
DeleteOf course she could be one of those that love selling the "gob services" too.. Who knows!
you are absolutely right 709pm.
Deletethe systematic destruction of the autodefensa leaders is way above her pay grade. she is merely a pawn who most likely was offered the pablo escobar deal:
take the money or take the bullet.
people have no choice but to take the money.
Maybe she is on the payroll, and if she she actually turned on the cartels then her life would be threatened, but that's the very reason the Mexican Government is so corrupted! Because there is no rule of law to do the right thing! What we have seen is that the Government is the head of all cartels with the police and soldiers as their armed wing, then they arrest a few narcos here and there to act like they are doing something! The judge should have just cut the bulshit out and said that no matter what evidence is presented Hipolito will be guilty, El Americano may be held some time to save face and if she does otherwise she won't be getting her cut from corruption and they might kill her or her family! Any fool knows her story is all bulshit!
Delete@7:09 don't give me that lame excuse that no one has a choice.Every person on earth has a choice only difference is that some choices come at a greater price.
Delete@3:17 I said no other choice. What would you do? Is all messed up.
DeleteThe same mexicans created the whole problem. They should had put the BRAKES right in the begining. NOW it got too big. & Complicated. 100+ years??
@7:09 better to die on your feet than live on your knees
DeleteThe judge should be charged.
ReplyDeleteWho came to whose house? Who made all the threats? A guy that caries around a gold plated gun with his nick name on it is surely suggestive that he leads a narco type life. That is not something that the average citizen does. If it looks like a rat, smells like a rat, acts like a rat, it is probably a rat. Torres is a rat!!! I am sure Mora's men did not shoot their own people. What about the video? Those did not sound like rounds coming from a .223 in raped succession.
ReplyDeleteA few relatives just back from Zamora and what they witnessed makes sense. The fuerza rurales patrol the area of zamora and its municipios. They go around picking up drunks and desmadrosos but will release you if you have cash to pay the fine on site. They are respectful and polite to locals and tourists. Their objective is to keep the peace at all cost. They found awkward that when la Marina comes around they disperse like ants but on one night they saw los rurales providing protection to a local drug lord from the zamora area. It makes me wonder if that is the reason they were created? To serve as legal hawks and provide legal protection to local drug lords around michoacan, protecting shipments and to keep outsiders from coming in to take over and create violence.
ReplyDeletethis is the danger one person takes a trip to a town and thinks he is an expert. rurales are more than half narcos. this was what Castillo said himself a month ago, this is his first step to get rid of them all. and that was the plan in the beginning. "Pay fine at the site" wtf do you think that is?
DeleteYou must have not understood the comment. He says they're bad guys in disguise and you agree to disagree?
Delete9:08 Good one. Makes sense.
DeleteI guess it also doesn't help to be related to el chango Mendez!
ReplyDeletethat is papa smurf
DeleteWhere is Papa Pitufo?
DeletePapa smurf is on the coast of Michoacan eating mangos and papayas, collecting quotas from miners and dockworkers, and sexing the underage daughters of poor peasants...dude is shady as fuk, he was the very first one to stab the good people of Michoacan in the back ....no wonder shit never changes...half the idiots in this world have the memory of an alzhiemers patient and keep clamoring for the wolves in sheep's clothing to come rescue them
Deletepapa smurff? and papa pituffo? There must thousands and thousands of thug papas all around mexica.
Delete...Mexicas at their best with their papa smurfs...on the coast of michoacan eating mangos and papayas, collecting quotas from miners and dockworkers, and xx underage sheeps. Back stabing pitufos. Damn. lol
just watch americano will have no gun powder residue and will be let go fuck this shit...
ReplyDeleteJust a few comments: As mentioned at the beginning of the post, Hipolito Mora and his men never denied that they fired their weapons, so the fact that they tested positive for gun powder residue is irrelevant. Given the heavy gunfire, there's a good chance anybody there would have tested positive even if they did not fire a weapon.
ReplyDeleteThe significance of the judge's ruling is that she totally ignores the legal issues in the case. There are only three questions that she should have addressed: 1. Were Hipolito Mora and his men acting as law enforcement officers at the time of the shootout? 2. Were Mora and his men authorized to carry and use the weapons they had at the time of the shooting? 3. Were Mora and his men acting within geographical jurisdiction at the time of the shooting?
An affirmative answer to all three questions should provide a legal defense against criminal charges. This is true regardless of El Americano's arguments since even Castillo concedes that El Americano and his group were no longer members of the Rural police. There's also the question of self defense, but under Mexican law, self defense is, more than anything, a political rather than a legal issue. (By the way, it is becoming that way in the U.S., too.)
In contrast, the same questions posed with respect to El Americano and his group would have a negative response. They were not law enforcement officers (LEOs), were not authorized to carry the weapons the judge says were involved in the shootout, and more significantly, were acting outside the geographical boundaries that could arguably provide them with lawful authority to act as communal or other class of LEOs.
There are other legal questions that I don't know whether Mora's defense raised. For example, Mora is acting under authority delegated to him by Castillo, whose own authority derives from an executive order from EPN. So, arguably, Mora is acting under federal law and federal authority, so why is he being tried in a state court? Why is the judge assuming that both groups in the gunfight had equal status? Why isn't the gendarmerie facing charges since the issues are basically the same?
The problem with this judge's ruling is that it prepares the way for a totally misleading series of findings that, although legally not relevant, in my opinion, will nevertheless provide the government with a pretext to convict Mora and exonerate El Americano. For example, were Luis Torres and his men tested for GSR? Were their weapons tested? If there were no such tests, and using the judge's reasoning, the only ones who can be found guilty of firing their weapons in the shootout were Mora and his men..
I have read that Mora's lawyer has appealed the judge's ruling. I don't know what he used as grounds for his appeal, but if he's not successful-- that is, if he cannot get the appellate court to look at the legal issues-- Mora's goose is cooked.
thx good read
DeleteThey can frame Hipolito all they want. Anybody with at least a brainstem can see what's going on! If the government really thinks people are to stupid to believe their bullshit, they are wrong! This case will cement everybodies feelings about the government! They will know know for sure that the government will frame anybody at all costs X and the only reason many don't currently rise up is because of fear!!! BUT Deep In Everybodies head they now know their own government is a joke , and when given an opportunity they will take down their own government! Only the fear of them losing what they have is holding them back!
DeleteY la tuta apa?
ReplyDeleteIsn't there a video of El Marrano's people saying there's people on the roof and then starting to blast away?
ReplyDeleteJudge has the same dumb look as the one setting Marisela Escobedo's daughter's killer free.
ReplyDeleteMEXICANS TO LOOK UP TO:
-Marisela Escobedo
-Dr Mirales
- The average innocent person who has to try to make it to the end of the day with the list below.
MEXICANS NOT TO LOOK UP TO:
- Chapo Guzman, La Tuta or any member of a cartel
- EPN, Castillo cargado or any politician
-Gerardo Ortiz or any other entertainer [sic] that glorifies blood money
All nooo. People are dumb and crooked it, so yeah....
DeleteSounds to me like she's saying Mora, et al were better shots. IMO, you can't get your people shot up if you aren't there to begin with. Why was Americano's police group farting around in another police groups area?
ReplyDeleteIt's very clear that the EPN-Tuta-Americano pact is alive and well. Peña nieto was going to being hope and change bla bla bla. EPN will go down as one of the biggest pices of shit presidents, probably only superseded by de la Madrid.
ReplyDeleteCastillo is setting up the PRI for a major blow up, the deeper he manipulates, the bigger the explosion will be! The real question is what will be the final straw?
DeleteIs there anyone who can discuss the legal process in this district of Mexico with some accuracy? This person is described as a judge but in some jurisdictions that initial decision is made by a Ministerio Publico who is as I understand it not a judge but more like a DA in the US. If this district is still under the old process, Napolianic justice is in effect. Guilty till proven innocent. Essentially if there is any question about who did what to whom, everyone is bound over by the Ministerio Publico for a trial by a judge. There is typically no oral presentations from either side rather the judge privately evaluates whatever paperwork is provided by both sides. If it is not provided it is not considered. To confuse things further I believe that the process differs from state to state. Part of the Meridia initiative involves retraining abogados in an open court process but little progress has been made with this as far as I can tell.
ReplyDeleteYes I have has first hand experience with this process but still do not fully understand it. If thinking US style justice system you can be astounded.
Legal process? Yea, you come in with a suit case full of money depending on the charge. You hire an attorney just as a front cause no matter how smart or stupid he is you know your money will ultimately do the job. You don't have to study the laws just study the judges and look for the hungriest, greediest one who will take the prearranged bait to get the charges dropped.
DeleteThere's your legal process in a nut shell.
Any bets that Americano walks on self defense claim??
ReplyDeleteSo why is the US government giving money to fight drugs? Or shall I say fight the citizens Mexico? How does a country fight drugs if they are arresting the ones not selling or distributing the drugs? Isn't El Americano ( Porky Pig) a big time producer of synthetic drugs? I'm confused!
ReplyDeleteCan someone show the video to that idiot judge
ReplyDeleteI hope all women are not this smart, becuse it is very clear that the judge's ass smells like powder, but nobody is trying to prosecute her...
ReplyDelete--what about the video previous to the attack?, youtube it, el americano recorded ordering his military commands: 'perate guey, the soldiers are coming, they will help us, unlike the "gendarmerie"...it seems like the gendarmerie and policia judicial federal were there with hipolito mora, AND that the gendarmeria started the shootup against el mamericano, they had to ge it done for castillo, beause after several days of yelling threaths to mora and his people, it was just not getting started, el comisionado was coming back, a 68's military move needed implementationing, to save michoacan all for theirselves...
Sounds like a total setup like the massacre in Mexico City before the Olympics firing into crowd to get the military shooting the crowd in confusion..Gendarmerie fired from Hips side 1st then gov can say Hipo started it.Thats BULLSHIT this gov behavior they should be trying to get peoples trust so they will vote for them but they just don't care.
ReplyDelete